Most Elegant Way To Start Pro License Syncing On A New Machine?

[hungarianhc]

Maybe I'm just missing something obvious... I just got a new computer, and I'd like it to start sync'ing all of my folders. I opened it up, and if I click "add folder" I can either choose a standard folder or I get a prompt to upgrade. When I click "My Devices" again there is just a prompt to upgrade to pro, which I have.

 

It appears that the only way to tell this new computer that I have a pro license is to search my e-mail for the key and download it, right? 

 

Okay so then I went and downloaded my license, I figured that it would use that key to propagate the folders... Nope. No folders. Hmmm okay...

 

So now I click Devices again and "Link Device." Then it shows me the QR code, and it says that if I scan w/ the Sync app, I can link my devices. Okay... I open up my sync app, and I scan the QR code. Now my mobile app says that it will be linked to "My New Device" and receive all the folders. That's not really what I want. I want my existing folders on the new computer. Immediately. This was very easy to do w/ the old system where nothing was tied to an account and everything was just a unique folder.

 

The on the new device, I went to add a device manually, but based on the language, it looks like this is actually something I should do on the existing device first. Okay. Onto the existing machine... got the code, typed it into the new machine, boom! Folders added!

 

So... The good news is that this all works. The bad news is that I don't think it's that intuitive. Unless I'm a moron... but it seems like when you first start up sync on a new machine, maybe it should ask about this? Anyhow, just some feedback! I feel like a lot of great work has been gone into smoothing things out for existing users, but adding a new device to an existing pro account isn't that intuitive!

[RomanZ]

@hungarianhc

Indeed, there is a place to improve the way how licensing and My Devices works. We want to make it more intuitive in future releases. Starting from 2.2.4 you can "Manual connect" the M-key even to free devices, so it will link right away. More changes to come.

[paedrae]

i update to 2.2.5 and now I have these problems:

1) The "Add Device" button is greyed and I can't add as usual a new device.

2) I manual import a key from a folder and got linked to my Identity, I have a list of devices (all greyed) but I HAVE NO FOLDER LIST (about 4-5 folder in my other device were synced with the NAS).

 

What the hell ?

How can I have my folder synced to the new device (already linked to my identity) ?

 

If I send a link to share folder it goes to a 404 page

[RomanZ]

@paedrae

I'm missing what happens in your environment. Note, that "My devices" and linking devices does not work in Sync Free 2.2.5. Therefore your "Link device" button is disabled.

 

If you got at least one device PRO or Trial - you can copy the M-key from there and paste it to Manual Connection box to get devices linked.

 

Please elaborate if I misunderstand you.

[eldrin]

I've just had a bad experience trying to get a device connected to my existing identity.

 

I've just restored a full system backup on one of my Windows PCs, which was running v2.2.6 PRO, to take it back to the state it was in a few months ago. After the restore was complete, I was back to the version I had at the time of the backup, v2.0.128 FREE.

 

Before doing the restore, I unlinked this PRO device. My other devices that were online didn't register this change -- in their 'Peers Online' column, the numbers stayed the same, and when clicking on those numbers, the device I'd just unlinked still showed up in the list of peers in each case.

 

After the restore was complete, the first thing I did was to remove the single folder that was inside the FREE version that was installed, which no longer pointed to a current valid destination anyway. Then I upgraded to v2.2.6.

 

I then unlinked the device and thought I'd be able to start afresh, importing my license and linking it to my existing identity. However, I discovered that before I could do anything, I was forced to create a new identity on this device. I couldn't even double-click the license file without being taken straight to the screen where I have to create a new identity.

 

After creating a new identity, I then had to initiate the import of the license file again, at which point I presume my license became associated with an additional identity. Only then, when I went into My Devices, was there a link that allowed me to connect to an existing identity. I went through that process and it seems to have worked, although the wording in the dialogs seemed to be at odds with what actually happens, and makes the procedure sound very confusing.

 

I chose for the initial folder state to be 'Disconnected' and then manually connected to each one, pointing to the existing up-to-date folders which were on a different drive, ignoring the warning about the folders already existing. Sync then reindexed those folders and all looked good on this restored device. However, on the only one of my other device which was online at the time, 2 out of the 4 folders think that they're in the process of uploading files to the new peer. This isn't happening of course -- it's already up-to-date. So the device that was online all the time, and didn't have anything done to it, is in some kind of confused state regarding 2 of the 4 folders.

 

The other really irritating things I encountered in this process are (1) the known issue where the folder names I had to connect to were the original ones I added long ago to my identity, rather than what I currently call these folders, meaning I had to change the destination folder name manually for each one when connecting to them, and (2) phantom devices, which don't exist, which I'd since hidden on all my devices, are still associated with my identity and I get to see them when unlinking/linking a device. There really should be a way to completely remove phantom devices from my identity, rather than simply hide them.

 

Question: I know there are limitations on how many different identities can be associated with a license. Because I had to temporarily create a new identity before I was even able to apply my license, does this mean I've now got more than one identity associated with my license?

 

In Summary, this is what needs to be improved:

 

1) Allow devices that are not in the Trial mode to have a license entered and then have themselves linked with an existing identity, without having to create a new identity first.

2) When unlinking a device, propagate that event to other devices so they know to remove the name of that peer from their lists of peers.

3) Make it possible to rename folders associated with the identity, rather than keeping the original names forever.

4) Fix the issue where an online peer gets into a confused state, thinking that it's sending files to the "new" peer when it's actually doing nothing.

5) Fix the wording in the dialogs that are presented when linking to an existing identity to make it more clear what is really happening.

[Helen]

1) On fresh install creating new identity is compulsory. After that, while it's Free you can go to Manual Connection and paste the M-key from other Pro sync. it will become Pro. Or go to Licenses menu, activate Trial or apply the license. Sorry, I do not understand what is the problem with entering the license on Free Sync. 

 

2) The peer list is a bit different from device list. Even though you might unlink the other device, standard folder will remain on it, and the device will still be online in peer list. As for advanced folders, the peer will remain offline for 7 days, because Sync cannot know if it is coming back online. Offline device in "my devices' list remain for 30 days for the same reason. 

 

3) You can rename the folder in a file manager or give it a name when connecting. Sync doesn't have possibility to rename the folders in UI. Perhaps, it will be implemented one day. 

 

4) This is a stuck files issue, which has a number of reasons . For your particular case,analysis for log is necessary to tell you why exactly some files have stuck. 

 

5) Can you please tell us what exactly wording you find confusing?

 

To answer your question: no it doesn't. 

[eldrin]

Can somebody else from BitTorrent please comment. Helen believes it makes perfect sense to have to create a new identity before linking to an existing identity, and admits she doesn't understand the problem.

 

I took a lot of time to carefully explain the issues in great detail, but the reply I got was inadequate. I would appreciate if someone would recognize and acknowledge that the overall experience I described, when trying to link a device to my existing identity, was sub-optimal.

[Helen]

eldrin,

 

I'm really sorry to disappoint you. I just tried not to write too long posts and reply to your questions to the point. 

I never said that it makes perfect sense, I just said that this is now compulsory - this is how Sync is designed now, you need to create a new identity on fresh install. And after that decide what you need to do - either enter license key, or M-key or activate Trial or leave it Free, 

Unfortunately, I cannot change it right now, but the team is listening to feedbacks and perhaps some time later it will be redesigned. 

 

Perhaps I misunderstood your summary point 1), and thought that you have faced a bug with Free devices when entering a license or linking to another identity, thus said that I didn't understand what exactly bug it is.
If this is just flow that is inconvenient, we hear you.  

[fnordsensei]

Sorry, I do not understand what is the problem with entering the license on Free Sync.

 

It's pretty simple: it's counterintuitive that you have to create an identity and then get rid of that identity in favor of the one you wanted to use from the start. Look at what the user wants to achieve in this context: Start the newly installed program, enter a license and watch the correct folders appear.

 

It took me some time to understand how to do this on a new machine as well and I'm a UX designer—I stare at weird design solutions all day. There is a problem, whether perceived or not. If in doubt, get some users in and do some usage testing.

[Moe]

I have to agree with fnordsensei that it is kind of not intuitive to have me create a basically temporary identity.. confused me so much the first time and I have been around for a while with Sync lol

[RomanZ]

@eldrin @fnordsensei @Moe

Thank you for thorough explanation. Actually, it was too confusing for vast majority of users to choose between identity creation and linking existing one at the first start, so we have to choose lesser of two evils.

 

I admit that it is not optimal at the moment and has a great space for improvement. Our UX engineers will get this feedback for sure.

[dannydc]

Whoever signed off on this method of adding a new machine to an existing account should have their pen taken away.

 

I've just tried to set up BTS on a new machine and it seems I've created a new ID. I have no idea how many different IDs I have across my machines, or how to find out. I've been trying to sell my colleagues on BTS for ages (it's a small IT company), but it's not easy as it's so confusing to set up, and this is a great example.

 

The other major confusion is having "Manual Connection" seperate from the "Add folder" icon. Everyone I've helped set up BTS for has hit "Add folder" when they've already been sent a key. Please make the "Add folder" button take you to an option of "New Folder", or "Manual Connection".

 

D

[RomanZ]

@dannydc
 

I've just tried to set up BTS on a new machine and it seems I've created a new ID. I have no idea how many different IDs I have across my machines, or how to find out. I've been trying to sell my colleagues on BTS for ages (it's a small IT company), but it's not easy as it's so confusing to set up, and this is a great example.

As I noted above - it is indeed not a good flow if you are using identities and My Devices at all. If you are not using identities - it is okay to have separate identity on each machine. This way of using Sync is pretty much like pre-2.0, i.e. you just Sync those folders that you explicitly exchange links/keys for.

 

The other major confusion is having "Manual Connection" seperate from the "Add folder" icon. Everyone I've helped set up BTS for has hit "Add folder" when they've already been sent a key. Please make the "Add folder" button take you to an option of "New Folder", or "Manual Connection".

This is something we also plan to change in future. "Manual connection" box which accepts pretty much everything starting from license keys and ending with links is indeed not intuitive.

[fnordsensei]

@eldrin @fnordsensei @Moe

Thank you for thorough explanation. Actually, it was too confusing for vast majority of users to choose between identity creation and linking existing one at the first start, so we have to choose lesser of two evils.

 

I admit that it is not optimal at the moment and has a great space for improvement. Our UX engineers will get this feedback for sure.

 

That's really odd. It doesn't have to be weirder than this:

 

Just replace "Dropbox" with "Bittorrent Sync" and "account" with "identity".

 

Edit: Also, thanks for listening to the feedback.

[RomanZ]

@fnordsensei

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as it looks like . People know what account is and are confused with "identity". So simply replacing is not going to solve an issue. It was exactly as you propose at the beginning of 2.0 - which make it terribly complex for end user.

 

Although, we are aware of the fact that there is a great space to improve My Devices usability. It is going to change in future.

 

Edit: Also, thanks for listening to the feedback.

Sure! As I mentioned many times, we always hear our community and customers feedback. Just sometimes it takes long to provide a response, as it depends on many teams and / or decisions.

[knlsdfg]

What bothers me is that BTSync has removed features over time in a way that breaks it completely for early adopters with the only solution being to buy Pro.

I don't think that's a good upsell strategy.

To be clear, I started with BT Sync before 2.x, used 2.0, one of my machines died and I had to reinstall the OS, go to download the latest BT Sync, I can't link my identities anymore. What more, given that I accidentally linked two identities to a folder, I have to UPGRADE to Pro in order to remove one of the identities. This is like a series of one way doors.

And to top it off, a recently updated machine was converted to BTSync Windows Service thinking that would be a better to do things. Nope. I have to restart the service manually every time this machine reboots defeating the purpose of using a service in the first place. 

Worst of all, I have now LOST data. Files were removed unexpectedly as well as some error message saying "index(): Function check: index". Googling brought up zero results.

For a file sync app, losing data is a cardinal sin. I moved from Dropbox to BT Sync because I wanted to get away from having a copy in the cloud. 

Please fix this. This is so frustrating and I am finding it extremely hard to trust BT Sync because it does not "just work".

 

 

 

 

[hungarianhc]

16 minutes ago, knlsdfg said:

What bothers me is that BTSync has removed features over time in a way that breaks it completely for early adopters with the only solution being to buy Pro.

I don't think that's a good upsell strategy.

To be clear, I started with BT Sync before 2.x, used 2.0, one of my machines died and I had to reinstall the OS, go to download the latest BT Sync, I can't link my identities anymore. What more, given that I accidentally linked two identities to a folder, I have to UPGRADE to Pro in order to remove one of the identities. This is like a series of one way doors.

And to top it off, a recently updated machine was converted to BTSync Windows Service thinking that would be a better to do things. Nope. I have to restart the service manually every time this machine reboots defeating the purpose of using a service in the first place. 

Worst of all, I have now LOST data. Files were removed unexpectedly as well as some error message saying "index(): Function check: index". Googling brought up zero results.

For a file sync app, losing data is a cardinal sin. I moved from Dropbox to BT Sync because I wanted to get away from having a copy in the cloud. 

Please fix this. This is so frustrating and I am finding it extremely hard to trust BT Sync because it does not "just work".

 

 

 

 

What you're saying is correct, but let's put the upsell strategy aside. The migration, even for someone paying for BTSync, was NASTY. It still is. I just upgraded a 2.2 FreeNAS box to 2.3.1 the exact same way I always do, and this time it forgot the identity, and I couldn't remove it from my other devices, so now I have an extra device that doesn't exist (the old NAS unit), and the new one is called something else. It was SO much cleaner to just have keys for folders, rather than wrapping things up with an account or identity. 

[Helen]

@knlsdfg,
Yes, indeed, inking devices was removed from Free. All the same MyDevices feature never worked in Sync Free, and sharing folder is still possible without linking devices. 

Once an identity connects to a folder, it will remain in the list of connected identities, by design, even if the peer itself gets disconnected in 7 days. 

Installing Sync as service is totally optional and not compulsory, Just don't tick "Install as service". But once you installed the service, it's the system that is to start in on boot, not Sync. To ensure boot, open Services (win+R > type services.msc->Enter) and change Sync's service StartupType to Automatic.

As for data loss, can you please "submit logs to support" from both peers, and provide more details on the setup, workflow and, in general, how it happened? Also, where exactly, and when, did you see that "message saying "index(): Function check: index"?? It doesn't looks like any Sync's pop-up. 

@hungarianhc,
I’m not sure how exactly you installed Sync on Free NAS (is it jail or you just launch binary), but perhaps the identity loss is related to a known  peculiarity - when Sync on Linux created its storage in current directory, rather than “near binary” as it used to? So most likely the problem is about just using the new storage?